Wading through shipping permits

[wodesorel]

Oh, okay....

I just wanted to add that this really sucks. I just found my first cana and I love him already and it really bites that it'll probably be my one and only.... I think I'm going to get a Marissa as well before it's too late, just so I can tell people I had them 70 years from now.

So are they illegal (federal law) to sell in stores, or only to bring across state lines? I imagine every state will have it's own laws regarding the subject, and I know of no snail that is illegal in Ohio.

[badflash]

pbgroupie-
Next time you are on the phone to the USDA could you please ask what snail species are outright BANNED for ownership, not shipping? If you could get a printed basis available on the web, it would really be apreciated and clear up a lot of stuff.

I'm pretty sure GALS are banned, but I could not find that, only a shipping ban. A complete list would be of great benefit.

[pbgroupie]

I'll do my best. I just got the first batch of permits today--one week after I had to sign the statements, which made it a few days past one month from application to permit. I had to e-mail the Aphis people because there are no guidelines about how to use the permits (ie do you put a copy on the outside of the box or just the number?, etc.) and I'm waiting for a reply. If I don't hear from them by the middle of next week I'll call Dr. Swallow and ask her in person. Then I'll add your question to my list. I would also like to see something "official" that says point blank which snails are banned from ownership, not just shipping.

[badflash]

Thanks! That would be good to see what species to protect from this legalistic storm. I'm not registering becaues I don't want a record of my canas. I've seen all to often how this proces is abused.

[pbgroupie]

I spoke with Dr. Swallow again (oh BTW, I've misspelled her name but that's what it sounds like!) and here's the scoop. You can own canna's and marissas. You can not ship them over state lines and should not advertise them for sale or trade. Transporting them by any means over state lines is against the law and they will confiscate and destroy them if you are caught. You may still keep them as pets until they pass away, but they don't want you breeding them (good luck with that! ) Badflash, you were correct as there is nothing concerning a complete ban (yet) in writing for anything but the GALS. But there probably will be in the near future.

I had stated in the first post of this thread that once you apply for the shipping permits you can use that number until you receive your actual permit. They now strongly request you wait to ship until you have the actual permit.

You can write your permit number on your shipping invoice just in case there are questions, and you may ship other species of snails (except for marissas and cannas) with the brigs. You should also include a little blurb that says that the snails are not to be released into the wild.

Hopefully some of you will breathe a little easier now and be able to enjoy your pets while they last.

[wyofish]

well Badflash, I guess it's time for you to set up an appointment with the vet for a mass snail neutering .

So, I've seen people in the snail section advertising canas for local pickup within the state...are those listings not permitted either?

With all this going on, I guess it's a good thing I didn't have room for canas when I started up, and I better not consider them now

Now, this bit on USDA being allowed to inspect the facilities makes me wonder, what are their specific regulations for snail-rearing facilities? Anyone have a link on that? I mean, it's SO likely one of my snails will escape from a second-story room, wander out into a semi-arid desert, and flourish into a pest....

[badflash]

well Badflash, I guess it's time for you to set up an appointment with the vet for a mass snail neutering

That would be against my religion
I'm giving them "just say no" lectures. They don't seem to understand

I now have 15 clutches on the size of my 40 gallon tank. I have to remove them almost daily to make room for more. Very sad to have to destroy the eggs. I think its the dandelion & collards.

pbgroupie- did they give you a reference for where even GALS are banned? I find nothing written even though I know there have been raids, just the ban on shipping in the same paragraph as Canas. My understanding was the raids were based on these guys shipping snails, not owning them. Because they had violated the rules on shipment that opened the door for raids. This is similar to baby turtles which you can't ship, but can own. The USDA banned them around 30 years ago due to childred sticking them in their mouths and getting sick,

[pbgroupie]

In typical government fashion, I can't find anything that says specifically "You may not own or possess GALS". This is the closest I've found and it came from one of the links I posted earlier in this thread:

Control
Since several species of this snail family are
capable of becoming agricultural pests and can pose
a serious health risk to humans, PPQ officials have
prohibited the unauthorized importation, entry,
exportation, or movement in interstate commerce of
the giant African snail without an APHIS permit.
SITC officers will confiscate and destroy the snails of
anyone without the proper permit.

This is basically their same stand if you are found to be shipping/transporting cannas over a state line. They will confiscate and destroy them.

To answer your question wyofish, I am unaware of any posts advertising cannas or marissas in the past week or so (since I made the announcement). If you happen to see a post I have missed, please let me know. The posting ban applies to people living in the US only, of course.

[wyofish]

Nah, no one posting recently...I was just wondering if the ones that post for local pickup or within their own state only are also restricted

[dorn27]

I need help with my epermit. I'm not sure who to contact so, I thought I'd ask you guys since many of you already have permits.

My first permit was denied since I listed 'all' for states. I don't know how I even managed this, because today there is a drop down list I have to select a state from. I think I typed it in somewhere. I'm pretty sure its different at least, I pretty sure I typed it in before.

It's making me list the entire address where I'm shipping too. I need a full address. No way around it... I tried to leave it black and it sends me mean error on page messages.

Now I thought this was an application for the entire state, not one specific address? I mean, I'm going to sell to multiple people in each state. Am I going to need to apply for every single address every single time!?

[pbgroupie]

You should be able to choose just the state. Let me log in a moment to the site. Okay, under the "Destination" link, click on the state you are applying for where it asks for destination address. Then click continue. It will ask for the destination's contact information. Don't fill out anything, just click continue. The destination summary page will come up with a lot of red warnings--ignore them. Click done and it will take you to the next section, Proposed measures. Hope that helps!

Suz

[dorn27]

I wanted to let you all know, that the USDA help desk told me you should put a punctuation mark or a space there, and that will skip you right past the warnings.

[Christine]

Just a note to add that applied for permits to ship for brigs and spixis. So far all of the permits have come back denied for the spixis. Are spixis not allowed to be shipped anywhere now?

[badflash]

Here is something interesting about shipping snails to Hawaii. Looks like that isn't happening...

http://www.franksaquarium.com/hawaii.htm

[Heidi]

Why doesn't the government spend more time and effort into trying to control bars who sell underage kids alcohol? We lost our son who was served at a bar, he was under age and all the bar got was a fine. I contacted our local representative and other organizations and no one wanted to help put a stop to this. I guess making people get permits for snails is much easier for them. DISGUSTING!!!